Dads & Dating

With this needed challenge to our 'modern'  assumptions of what is Christian and what is 'wise' or 'best' ....  comes the wise warning that if we take the biblical pattern seriously, but in a wooden and block headed way, we will end up with 3 or 6 idiots involved in dating rather than just two. 

And that condition is worse than the first! 

Dating: Problem # 1

I am not sure if Harris' order is significant. Anyway, this is the one he highlights first. 

Dating tends to skip the friendship stage of a relationship

CS Lewis describes friendship as two people walking side by side towards a common goal. Harris suggests that dating, due to its focus on physical attraction, on the fact that you are now (in some sense) 'an item' or 'a couple',  can so easily lead to superficiality and to a stifling of the growth of the friendship. There is not that freeing aspect of being able to be yourself and do things together because you enjoy them because you are focusing too much on looks, the 'feelings' you have for each other etc.  (I Kissed Dating Goodbye, p38-39)

Dating: Problem # 2

Dating often mistakes a physical relationship for love. 
'many people believe that going out with someone means physical involvement' (you 'mark out' that you are 'dating' as opposed to being 'just friends' through things like kissing, cuddling, holding hands at least!) 
This physical involvement can make two people feel close and feel in love. But this doesn't equate to love. 
( I Kissed Dating Goodbye, p40)

After all: what does it mean to be 'in love'? 'Love' can, as a result, become a pretty weak idea, if you think about it .... downgraded to mean something like ... 'I feel sexually excited  and emotionally satisfied by you at this current moment in time'. If we were honest and said this rather than 'I love you' would our 'dating' last long do you think?

Dating: Problem # 3

'While Garreth and Jenny were dating, they didn't need anyone else. Since it meant spending time with Jenny, Garreth had no problem giving up Wednesday night Bible study with the guys. Jenny didn't think twice about how little she talked to her younger sister and mother now that she was dating Garreth. Nor did she realize that when she did talk to them, she was always saying something like ' Garreth this ...' and 'Garreth said such and such ...' Without intending to, both had foolishly and selfishly cut themselves off from other relationships. ( I Kissed Dating Goodbye)

Dating: Problem # 4

One of the saddest tendencies of dating is to distract young adults from developing their God-given abilities and skills. Instead of serving in their local church, instead of equipping themselves with the character, education, and experience necessary to succeed in life, many allow themselves to be consumed by the present needs that dating emphasizes. 

Harris then gives an example of a couple who start dating when they are 15. They never get involved physically but they break up two years later. Surely a model of godly purity in dating? Surely a good thing for them? Well, there must be good things. But there are costs too. Maintaining and growing a relationship takes a lot of time, energy, prayer ... there are countless hours spent thinking, talking, texting! And that time and energy is not being poured into study, service, the family, sport, music ... we'll you can imagine all the things. And so at the end of the day, what has been gained? 

Dating may help you practice being a good boyfriend or girlfriend, but are these the skills we need for marriage? Even if you're going out with the person you will one day marry, a preoccupation with being the perfect boyfriend or girlfriend now can actually hinder you from being the future husband or wife that person needs one day.   

 (I Kissed Dating Goodbye, p43)

Dating: Problem # 5

Dating can cause discontentment with God's good gift and good gifts in singleness: 

God gives us singleness - a season in our lives unmatched in its boundless opportunities for growth, learning, and service - and we view it as a chance to get bogged down in finding and keeping boyfriends and girlfriends. ( I Kissed Dating Goodbye p44)

Dating: Problem # 6

Joshua Harris has a chapter titled 'The Seven Habits of Highly Defective Dating'. This is number 6:

 'dating creates an artificial environment that doesn't require a person to accurately portray his or her positive and negative characteristics. On a date, a person can charm his or her way into a date's heart. He drives a nice car and pays for everything; she looks great. But who cares? Being fun on a date doesn't say anything about a person's character or ability to be a good husband or wife.' ( I Kissed Dating Goodbye p45)

The Dating Game

An excellent and honest piece here on why Christians should not date non Christians.

Thanks for your honesty and clarity Dawn.

too young to date?

put your energies where they count!

honour everyone!

The great dating deception

Dating is not the best way to get to know another person, but it is the best way to get involved with another person.

If a girl wants to be impressed with a young man, she needs to see how he speaks to his own mother at home, and not how nice he can be across the dinner table from a cute girl at a restaurant.

They may both deceive themselves into thinking that if they date in this way they are getting to know the other person. In a sense this is true; they are getting to know the other person, but they are getting attached to them first. Before they get to know one another, while they are still putting up appearances, they are growing attached. This means that when they learn how the other person really is (and they certainly will eventually), they will then be in a difficult position of not being able to leave without hurt. (p88-89)

Grr ........ (girls rel rev!)

Girls night

Scenarios:

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Tessa and Chris are both thirteen. They like each other and enjoy doing things together like going to the cinema and spending time with their friends. They know that they won’t even think about marriage for ages but people put pressure on them to “go out with each other”.Why is this not helpful to them and what should they do?

Help from the bible:
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh Genesis 2:24
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Jessica is a Christian girl who is 14. Her best friend has already had lots of boyfriends and she is concerned that she should catch up. After all how will she get ready for marriage if she hasn’t gone out with lots of people. But her friend doesn’t seem to get much out of the relationships, in fact each one is shorter than the last. How would you advise Jessica?

Help from the bible:
Put to death, thererfore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature:sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed Colossians 3: 5
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Rachel goes to Excel and although she is friends with the boys there she can’t imagine going out with any of them ever!! There are lots of non-Christian boys who she can imagine going out with though and she doesn’t know how she will be able to follow God when he says that she should only marry a Christian. What help and advice can you give Rachel? What is one reason that God tells us to marry Christians?

Help from the bible:
Has not the Lord made them on? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. Malachi 2:15

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6 : 14
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Mary sees sex on TV and everyone seems to be doing it. It doesn’t seem like a big deal and it really just seems to be a normal part of teenage life. Surely it can’t be that serious? She is a Christian and wants to do what pleases God. How would you advise her?

Help from the bible:
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh Genesis 2:24

relationships revolution

This is an outline of what we taught at eXcel on Sunday:

Item 1: RR Quiz (opening activity)
Who did Jade Goody recently marry? Jack Tweed
What is the value of Madonna’s divorce settlement (to the nearest £m) £50-60m
How many people got divorced in 2006? 133,000
How many people got divorced in 1950? 33,000
How many marriages were there in 2007? 231,450
What proportion of under 16s were living with one parent? 1/3
Which Atomic Kitten is to divorce her husband? Kerry Catona
Who is getting married next week and who is being the bridesmaid? Susan Piggot and Jane
What is the average cost of a wedding? £20,000
What is the average number of sexual partners for a man and a woman in the UK? 6 and 4

{ this turned out to be too difficult a quiz! Even encouraging having a guess and giving a leeway for answers it was still hard! The girls did better than the boys}

Item 2: 'Brainstorm'
Qu 1/ What is dating?
Answers:
Luv, taking someone special out, relationship, meeting, when u fancy someone and u take them out, good times, having fun, enjoying each others company, when you love someone and take them place

Qu 2 / Good reasons to date
Answers:
love, kissing and hugging, someone to love, someone to take care of you, someone close to talk to, u might get married at the end, you love them, making a family, being with your favourite person

Qu 3 / Bad reasons to date
Answers: because they are rich, popular, you dow love em, you are desperate, for kissin and other things, popularity, other people's approval, for a dare, for a laugh, because you are jealous of people going out and want to too, money,

Item 3: Genesis 2:24 cut into a jigsaw and hid round church. Two teams find their pieces in a relay and then write up on the board.

Item 4: Talk (interactive and with a PP)

We all face the first choice of who is going to run our lives:
- King Jesus
- King me
- King other people (peer pressure)

If we want to follow Jesus then we want to know what he wants about all kinds of things:
-every stage of life, from high chair to wheel chair
- music, clothes, alcohol, drugs, smoking, work, tv etc.
-relationships is one part of that

Our ultimate need is a relationship with God. If we are looking for all our needs to be met, hurts healed by another person we will be very disappointed. God has made us to relate to him and only he, who is infinite, can meet our every need.

Relationships are designed by God. He made us with hands and one of the wise reasons he did that was so that a man and woman could hold hands. We could go on round the body noticing the same thing. So he is in the best place to tell us about how to conduct our relationships.

Lots of other people will tell us (by example or directly) how to conduct our relationships. Our families, friends, other people around us, soaps and chat shows, films, books, magazines, songs, adverts and the rest.

There is no one passage to go to about 'dating' - there was no such thing in the Bible times. So we will look at what God does say and then see how that helps us.

The first general truth is that sex sticks together, like a powerful glue. And sex is everything from kissing to condom, holding hands through to the bedroom.

Sex is for marriage to stick together a new family unit:

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:24

notice a few things here:
-> marriage (& therefore sex) has an implied age criteria ...being old enough to leave home and set up home with someone else. The legal age in this country is 16. What would we do if it changed to 12? Are two 12 year olds ready to set up home together? (it was agreed no!)
-> marriage (& sex within it) is about being united and one flesh for life and exclusively. 1 man and 1 woman (cf. Gen 1:27-28 & Matt 19:4-6).
-> marriage (& in this respect sex) is public. Not for in public (the bus shelters of Tipton!!?), but it is public because it is a new family unit it affects the rest of the family and society. Practically and emotionally. Hence the confusion, expense, hurt where there is no marriage or broken marriage. [and when there has been this hurt or confusion it is very easy to make the same mistakes through looking to heal/dull the hurt or through mistrust of others].

Sex is for 'producing' godly children in a godly family

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Genesis 1:28

You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. 15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. Malachi 2:14-15

notice a few things here:
-> sex & children go together [often people talk like the two are not related ... or magazines focus just on the 'glamour' of sex and not the 'glamour' of nappies/commitment etc.]. This raises the issue of contraception and abortion. This is a complicated area, but any action taken to kill a child or to allow 'no consequence' sex to happen outside of marriage, or within marriage to enable a couple never to have children, is wrong.
-> if God intends godly children for us then we need to marry a godly husband/wife. It will be confusing if our children are always having to choose one way over another. Perhaps you have experienced this already as a child.

Sex is to be part of marriage that is a picture of the gospel

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Saviour. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no-one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:22-33

-> sex involves service of Christ through the taking up of the roles he has given us in love and submission to him. It is fundamentally not self centred.

So sex is not 'all about me':

-> an appetite to feed (for my pleasure, feeling loved, getting street cred, getting knowledge about the unknown)
-> a competition to win (being a 'good kisser' or 'good in bed' as opposed to him or her who isn't)
-> for 1 person alone (pornography is just that)

So, back to dating then. Given all that, what does King Jesus say to us about dating?

Well, if we date (and that is a big if, I am not at all convinced that the way we do dating is at all helpful ... and if you haven't or don't date, you should not feel you are missing out!):

-> we will be dating as part of moving towards marriage. So, here's a question: 'will you marry this person soon'? Clearly if you are 12, no matter how much you like the girl or guy the answer is 'no'. So why date? Why not be great friends and take care to steer clear of all that powerful glue that comes with the physical/emotional intimacy of 'going out'?
-> we will date a Christian who will help us as a Christian (and not everyone who says they are a Christian will help us as a Christian)
-> we won't have sex as part of our dating.

This is nothing less than a relationships revolution!

Sex is a wonderful gift from God - marriage is the place to unwrap it and get good at it.
Relationships we enjoy with each other are all part of our relationship with God - we need him central in all of our life.
If you love someone, marry them! Or get ready to marry them in the future when you are ready for all the above - get ready to be the best husband or wife you could be for them.

So, here is a vision of marriage - your 50th or 60th wedding anniversary and still in love...
-> how important will it have been to have known how to kiss well aged 12 or 13?
-> will you be proud to tell your (Christian) children and grandchildren what you got up to at their age?
-> how will your husband and wife feel if you have kissed or had sex with loads and loads of other people? Would you want your wife or husband to have done that?

In all this don't forget that Christ loved us and gave himself for us that we might be forgiven our sins, even our sexual sins. That is wonderful news every time and every way we mess up and turn back to him. But don't forget that as your saving King he wants you to trust him in this area of life. So let's pray and ask his help.